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4774 Jacobus 900d2bea on 2019/01/23 (Wednesday) 12:20:46
As a person who has a sister with the exact same personality as Asuka I can tell you that she's 2w3
4775 phsc 51ce0ead on 2019/01/23 (Wednesday) 13:16:19
Yeah, did she grow up without parents? your sister is also an EVA pilot? does she have narcissistic, borderline and histrionic personality disorders too? did she graduate from university at like age 14? is she overly competitive and gets really angry when she loses, but after all, cries if she isn't the best? I don't remember the exact age because it has been a quite long time since I watched Evangelion, but I'm pretty sure Asuka is a 3w4.
But actually, I kinda trust you, if we consider that weird ending from the original anime which it is all a dream or something and like Shinji goes to school with Asuka, it makes a lot of sense for 2w3, but in the anime and the way she was developed, and I'd say in End of Evangelion too, she is a 3w4.
I'm up for arguments, and "trust me I have empiricism" is not an argument, please, try at least showing key factors, my sister does X Y Z and Asuka does X Y Z and 3w4s do A B C and my sister and Asuka don't do A B C yet let's say a third ENTJ 3w4 does these things, etc.
4776 Jacobus 900d2bea on 2019/01/23 (Wednesday) 15:03:24
Upon looking closer at the Enneatypes (2 and 3 were always types I've neglected), I'll admit she's probably more of a 3, but she's an unhealthy 3w2, not 3w4. The 2-ish need to be loved and wanted is way too clear in her, vs the 4-ish need to be unique.
4777 phsc 51ce0ead on 2019/01/23 (Wednesday) 16:32:09
Well, lets to go the enneagram institute itself to get descriptions:
2: The Caring, Interpersonal Type: Demonstrative, Generous, People-Pleasing, and Possessive
3: The Success-Oriented, Pragmatic Type: Adaptive, Excelling, Driven, and Image-Conscious
4: The Sensitive, Withdrawn Type: Expressive, Dramatic, Self-Absorbed, and Temperamental
If take the words that affect Asuka, and only, we get these, according to me: Demonstrative, Possessive - Excelling, Driven, and Image-Conscious - Expressive, Dramatic, Self-Absorbed, and Temperamental
Which in theory gives 2 points to enneagram 2, 3 points to enneagram 3 and 4 points to enneagram 4.
From the same source, a small quote on misindentifying 3s and 4s:
Threes tend to focus on task, on efficiency, on performance. Of course, Threes have feelings, but as much as possible, they put them on the backburner whenever there are things to get done—and with many Threes, that is most of the time. As Threes become less healthy, they increasingly see their own feelings as "speed bumps"–annoyances that must be dealt with but which interfere with their effectiveness. Threes want to get their goals accomplished, and then, time permitting, process their feelings.
Fours are almost the exact opposite. Naturally, Fours want to accomplish things too, but when difficult feelings arise, Fours want to stop what they are doing and process them before returning to their tasks. The less healthy the Four, the more he or she will need lots of time to sort through troubling feelings and reactions. Threes can see the Four's preoccupation with sorting feelings as unprofessional and immature. Fours can see the Three's obsession with performance as inauthentic and shallow.
With that, you can see that: she is 3 over 4, but, back to the original point, 2 vs 4:
Threes get others to like them by developing the excellence of their own "package." Threes seldom lavish attention on the other; rather, they are trying to be so outstanding and irresistible that the other will want to focus attention on them. And while Threes enjoy the attention, and want relationships, they actually fear intimacy, becoming more uneasy as the relationship becomes closer.
Also true, of course, but what is more true, the fact Asuka wants attention and be considered great is true for both cases, but what affects her more, trying to be the focus of attention or trying to escape her feelings? well, the general point of Asuka in Evangelion is her escaping her feelings, and in theory once she accepts them and etc in like the End of Evangelion, she gets the AT field and kicks the ass of the like evil EVAs.
Anyway, this is purely according to the enneagram institute, what happens in practice is that, 2s tend to be good with people, and 4s tend not to be good with people, and well, Asuka is really unhealthy, but she really... sucks as a close friend or helping others! she doesn't.
Not only that but there is a clear relation with 3w4 and narcissism, which is pretty obvious, I'd say mostly in real life, and people here seem also to agree on that: http://index.sakinorva.net/view?id=2992 but it's not like this says anything just makes the probability higher, not like there are no 3w2 narcissists
Anyway, here is the thing: all types need some love, some at all, when a kid mostly, and she didn't have the love she needed as a kid, and I've seen that in practice 4s also want love, attention and recognition, she works towards that, so a 3, she doesn't help others which is mostly the main characteristic of 3s, she is not good with people, not saying that 2s help people for the sake of helping them, some do actually, but what happens is that, she doesn't do that, and the 3w4 problem with hiding the feelings to get the job done is literally all that happens in Evangelion.
So I consider your argument valid, but not as a valid as mine for 3w4, she does have small 2 traits, but way more 4 traits.
Any other argument is welcome, if mine didn't convince you and you think I didn't understand the point of your argument or that I didn't refute it, please explain to me why.
4778 Jacobus 900d2bea on 2019/01/23 (Wednesday) 18:12:22
Think about it this way: both 3w2 and 3w4 will want to be at the top of whatever social group they are in. However, 3w4 will try to do that through their own "unique" manner and with more willingness to confront their emotions (think Lil Peep, Janelle Monae and Lady Gaga). I don't see any of that in Asuka. She actively conforms and derides Shinji and Rei for refusing or being unable to conform. Her methods for winning attention and praise are by being more skilled than others, more intelligent than others, and most importantly, sexier than others. That lines up much more with 3w2.
You are correct in pointing out that her relations to her emotions are atypical for 3w2s, but that can be more easily explained by the fact that a) she's extremely unstable; b) a fictional character, and thus bound to be inconsistant with actual human archetypes.
4780 phsc 51ce0ead on 2019/01/23 (Wednesday) 18:46:52
Well, not really, that is how a 4w3 tries to do it, and mostly types that have Fi or Ne, I don't know who Janelle Monae is but I'm pretty sure both Lil Peep and Lady Gaga are not only ISFP but also 4w3, and the typings in this site seem to agree with me, and well, guess, Asuka is a ENTJ, Te Ni Se Fi, and a ISFP is Fi Se Ni Te, it's the same functions but in complete opposite order, and thus, complete different methods of use, and the MBTI and the functions really affect it, but she is also 3w4 because, isn't being the best being unique after all? it's not about doing it in a unique way as a 3w4, thats how a 4w3 or a 4w5 would see it, it's about doing it, it's a 3 main, they might do it so they are different, 3 first, 4 second.
So, if your argument is comparing a ENTJ 3w4 to ISFPs 4w3, then saying they are not similar and well, they aren't! and then saying she is 3w2 not giving a valid argument for 3w2, because isn't being the best, being unique, after all?
5721 Kawaii 0bf3ca47 on 2019/03/27 (Wednesday) 12:00:50
Whats actually 4 about her?
5723 phsc 51ce0ead on 2019/03/27 (Wednesday) 12:17:11
Actually thinking about it, 3w2 fits better? I mean she does want things such as love (Kaji thing, indirectly Shinji, etc) and related things, but she doesn't treat it like a 2 normally does and does not do 2 classicl behaviour like helping others but it does not justify 4, does she want to be special? have a identity? I mean she did try to find a purpose to her life and that would be being the best EVA pilot ever, I think what happened here is just stereotypes taking things over?
I mean it depends a lot on the source for enneagram stuff but reading what I wrote using the enneagram institute she does not fit into 2 classic stuff and slighty better into 4, but if we consider only core fears and motives as mr.bloomer would like, 3w2 fits best, I am unsure, if I remember right mostly in the rebuild she is way more isolated and in the original she was more dramatic and emotional but mostly internally.
It has been a while since I watched Eva so maybe what I remember is wrong?
So she wants some kind of love that would be all I can say for enneagram 2 as much as she does not have typical 2 behaviour at all, she has a minimal identity seek with the "I want to be the best EVA pilor ever" but then that is just mainly 3, in behaviour I think 4 fits better because of the emotional struggles she has? I have no idea.